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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 22, 2013 18:02:41 GMT -8
I like Geordie (Cheryl Cole and Diana Vickers), Received Pronunciation (Kate Beckinsale) and East Texan (Matthew McConaughey).
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Post by thelearningpianist on Aug 23, 2013 2:02:07 GMT -8
Do I not just have the single greatest accent ever?
/thread.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 23, 2013 2:15:25 GMT -8
Truth.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 23, 2013 2:39:08 GMT -8
Female scottish can be nice
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krystalmeth
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Post by krystalmeth on Aug 28, 2013 13:17:50 GMT -8
I like being talked dirty to in any non Asian sounding language. As for accents I love Jamaican accents because they can't say three correctly. Neither can people from Scranton PA. But they say man funny too and I find it entertaining.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 1:17:47 GMT -8
How do you know that you're being talked to dirtily?
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 5:04:13 GMT -8
I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian", because smart.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 5:49:24 GMT -8
In common parlance, Asia has become almost completely synonymous with the Far-East. It's not really fair to criticize her for such usage when it is the norm.
Hell, I was being written off as a loon at work when I explained to my ignorant manager that Sri Lanka is a part of Asia. Because "Asia" is Japan, China and Korea!
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:21:57 GMT -8
It's impossible to rise above the pleb, right?
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:28:56 GMT -8
Finding excuses for ignorance is the easiest thing in the world. She certainly knows where India, Russia and Israel are, but she still uses "Asian" to mean South-Eastern and Eastern Asian. Also, "Far East" really isn't the same as "South-Eastern and Eastern Asian" and it's a very loose term (unlike "Middle East). It's rarely used in an important context.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 7:36:58 GMT -8
It's impossible to rise above the pleb, right? Context my friend, always remember context. I know very well what Asia is, but I also know that the use of asian within the context of her comment is simply a reflection of the standard use of the word rather than a display of ignorance concerning geographical Asia. It's about giving her the benefit of the doubt.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:40:29 GMT -8
She most likely knows what the problem with using that term in that way is. It's not hard for her to use a better term.
Taking a term, "X", that has the known characteristics "a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,e,j,k", using it to mean "a,b,c" in order to describe something that is "a,b,c" as "X", is worse than just saying "a,b,c" instead of "X".
How many times have you complained about people making some grammar mistakes? Those mistakes are the norm. It's unfair to criticise them.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:43:25 GMT -8
It's impossible to rise above the pleb, right? Context my friend, always remember context. I know very well what Asia is, but I also know that the use of asian within the context of her comment is simply a reflection of the standard use of the word rather than a display of ignorance concerning geographical Asia. It's about giving her the benefit of the doubt. The previous post was written before I saw this reply. Wtf? You think I didn't? What does this: "I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian" indicate to you? Also, again, yes, people can understand what she said. So fucking what? People can also understand "Who do you fight?".
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 7:46:07 GMT -8
I've distanced myself from prescriptivism as misguided quite a while ago. (that's not to say that I don't maintain my own grammatical opinions) but ultimately, I recognise them as just that, opinions.
I was saying your attack on her is unfair, not that you are unaware of the particular usage.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:47:38 GMT -8
In the last American presidential debate on foreign policy, the interviewer and the 2 blokes talked about Mali, Libya and Afghanistan as being in the Middle East. Soon enough, Nigeria, Congo and India will also be put there (Pakistan is pretty much already there).
No other country in the world refers to Mali, Libya and Afghanistan as being in the Middle East.
I don't know how often Asian is used in Australia in the way that you described, considering its geographic location. I talked to a few Australians and saw several talk shows and I never saw it. Even if you're right, it doesn't matter, because it's still wrong to use it in that way.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:48:18 GMT -8
I've distanced myself from prescriptivism as misguided quite a while ago. (that's not to say that I don't maintain my own grammatical opinions) but ultimately, I recognise them as just that, opinions.
I was saying your attack on her is unfair, not that you are unaware of the particular usage.Meaning you don't think it's wrong to use those mistakes?
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 7:49:44 GMT -8
In pretty much all English speaking countries, to say Asia is to be talking about China, Japan, Korea ect.
Unless of course, the context is more specific.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:50:06 GMT -8
"Context my friend, always remember context."
Using "Asian" to mean "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian" is wrong in every possible context I can ever imagine. Once again: taking a term, "X", that has the known characteristics "a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,e,j,k", using it to mean "a,b,c" in order to describe something that is "a,b,c" as "X", is worse than just saying "a,b,c" instead of "X".
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:52:50 GMT -8
In pretty much all English speaking countries, to say Asia is to be talking about China, Japan, Korea ect. Unless of course, the context is more specific. I haven't seen it in the UK as much as I have in the US and I am doubting that it is as common in Australia as in the US. Also, I don't see the value of appealing to the majority. "Asian" is clearly defined. I never saw it defined as meaning "China, Korea and Japan" in my entire life.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 7:54:49 GMT -8
"Context my friend, always remember context." Using "Asian" to mean "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian" is wrong in every possible context I can ever imagine. Once again: taking a term, "X", that has the known characteristics "a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,e,j,k", using it to mean "a,b,c" in order to describe something that is "a,b,c" as "X", is worse than just saying "a,b,c" instead of "X". You can whine all you want. But when you say someone is asian without giving more information, most people will assume you are talking about someone from the Sinosphere. It's just the way it is. That is what the word means in the modern colloquial.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:56:18 GMT -8
"Context my friend, always remember context." Using "Asian" to mean "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian" is wrong in every possible context I can ever imagine. Once again: taking a term, "X", that has the known characteristics "a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,e,j,k", using it to mean "a,b,c" in order to describe something that is "a,b,c" as "X", is worse than just saying "a,b,c" instead of "X". You can whine all you want. But when you say someone is asian without giving more information, most people will assume you are talking about someone from the Sinosphere. It's just the way it is. That is what the word means in the modern colloquial. And?
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:57:14 GMT -8
How was I wrong to say this: "I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian", because smart."?
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 7:59:39 GMT -8
This is a conversation I had today on another forum:
OP: "I got into a facebook argument that went a little something like this.
Person A: "Be resolute, fear no sacrifice and surmount every difficulty to win victory" -Mao ze Dong
Me: Mao said nice sounding stuff, but he was a horrible person. His policies more resemble fascism than communism.
Person B: that's utter BS.
Person C: You're the one with the burden of proof Geronimo.
Person D: "i have literally no understanding of fascism"
by all means, dislike mao - criticise mao - but fascism is a specific thing. not a blanket insult term you can chuck around and expect to be taken seriously
Person E: f you think that a man who led a revolution that lifted one quarter of humanity out of desperate poverty, saved hundreds of millions of lives by drastically reducing hunger and disease, gave dignity and liberation to the women of China, and stood up to imperialism across Asia is a 'fascist', then you can never be a communist in my book, and are well on your way to becoming a liberal, social democrat or some kind of reactionary, if you aren't one already.
Me: Definition of fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition: Tell me, is this not exactly what Mao did? blind loyalty to the nation and rule under a dictator? I have a hard time respecting someone who killed more people than Hitler.
Tell me, I am correct in this argument, right."
My reply: "You're taking a term, "X", that has the known characteristics "a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h". You are using it to mean "a,b,c,d,e" in order to describe something that is "a,b,c,d,e" as "X". I think it's better to just describe it as "a,b,c,d,e", because it's easier to get the important part of your message across. Everyone agrees on what "a,b,c,d,e" is, but not everyone agrees on what "X" is.
So, if you say: "Mao had an ideology that exalted the nation and often race above the individual and that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition", you'll get more people to understand what you mean than "Mao was a fascist"."
His reply: "That's actually a good point, thank you."
My reply: "You're welcome! ^^"
Too bad you weren't there to say most people use "fascist" in the wrong way, so it's OK to be dumb.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 8:01:06 GMT -8
How was I wrong to say this: "I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian", because smart."? Perhaps I misunderstood your intended tone, but I read that as an uncalled for sarcastic jab at her intelligence. I felt that you were being drastically unfair to her.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 8:05:35 GMT -8
Also, in Romania, "Asian" means "from Asian" (yes, even in the "modern colloquial"). Same goes for most of Europe (even in the UK). We are actually able to understand this very simple concept, so please end your baseless "most people" claim or actually prove it.
Then, if you would explain how an argument from the majority isn't a fallacy, I will accept that I am wrong and it's OK to use it like that.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 8:07:17 GMT -8
How was I wrong to say this: "I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian", because smart."? Perhaps I misunderstood your intended tone, but I read that as an uncalled for sarcastic jab at her intelligence. I felt that you were being drastically unfair to her. Because you didn't read "American word"? It was more a jab at that then at her, but also a small jab at her. I am 100% certain she didn't mind, because I talked to her far more than you did.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 8:21:56 GMT -8
Tell me Nem, have you actually lived in an English speaking country for a significant amount of time? Because I do. And 99% of the time to say something is "asian" is to say it is East-Asian. The exception is if you're talking about geography, in which case most people are aware of what Geographical Asia encompasses.
I'm not making a fallacy because I'm not talking about what Asia itself is, but what (in open context) the typical understanding of the word "asia" is and why it's ultimately nonsensical to really talk about right and wrong here as if such words really have independent meanings. Under your logic it's incorrect to use gay to mean homosexual, because the majority use of gay is "incorrect" and the word actually describes an emotional state.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 8:25:48 GMT -8
"Gay" also means "homosexual" in dictionaries and everyone knows that meaning, regardless of culture. That was an awful analogy.
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Tlaloc
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Post by Tlaloc on Aug 31, 2013 8:28:41 GMT -8
"Gay" also means "homosexual" in dictionaries and everyone knows that meaning, regardless of culture. That was an awful analogy. No, it's precisely the same thing. it's just that such usage has been around for a long enough time that not only has it become an understood word for gay, but the assumed meaning in most contexts. A dictionary describes the usage of the parlance it was written to describe. Right and wrong in the sense you are claiming are irrelevant as far as a dictionary complier is concerned. It in fact, does not exist.
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Nemesis
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Post by Nemesis on Aug 31, 2013 8:31:12 GMT -8
"the typical understanding"?
Once again, I said: "I guess you used "Asian" as the American word for "South-Eastern or Eastern Asian", because smart."
Do I have to think the typical understanding is smart? Many people use it wrongly, so it's OK! Most people think the Moon has a dark side. That means I can't sarcastically say that using "dark side of the Moon" to mean "far side of the Moon" is smart, because it would be unfair?
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